2 out of 3 crabs died. Need some good advice =(

[llmercll]

I just did my first deep clean and found 2 out of my 3 crabs were dead =(

I have a thread about it here,

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=3327&p=28791#p28791

I'm hoping in this thread you can help me figure out what might have caused their deaths. The odd thing is, the surviving crab, is fit as a fiddle. Active, and wonderfully colored. Here are some pics of my crabitat before the deep clean...

http://img17.imageshack.us/i/dscn1736j.jpg/
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/dscn1735d.jpg/
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/dscn1734n.jpg/

2 water bowls, temp and humidity in check, deep substrate, food dish, house, netting for fun

I don't know what I did wrong! Something I'm considering is the substrate I used. It was some industrial grade sand, quikrete from lowes. I read that some of it had metal in it, which can rust and is poison to crabs. Sure enough my sand had metal in it...I don't know if that would have killed them in 5-6mo I had them though. Either way, I used pure coconut fiber this time.

My mom thinks that my substrate was too deep. She always complained to me and said there's too much substrate and I tell her every time, you're meant to have deep substrate She still doesn't believe me, so if someone could respond in bold caps saying "hello sharon, the substrate needs to be deep heres why" she'd get off my back. The substrate now is shallower now, probably just deep enough for a crab to fully bury. I don't know if that is really bad for crabs, or if it's just recommenced to be 2x as deep for better molt success.

Another thing is my big strong crab was a bully. he really wanted my other crabs shell and harrased him until i bought a new one for him. Oddly enough, it was after i bought the new shells that my now dead crab switched shells, went down, but never came back up. My crabs were NEVER social. I never saw them together, at any time. They were always by themselves.

Ugh, anyone have any ideas of what i can do to prevent my only crab now from dying? he seems pretty strong, but there's gotta be something i did wrong. I don't think it was pet store stress because they lasted 6 months...

[emmac350]

Let's see...finding dead crabs is never a fun time. You just want to know what happened to them. A few things I can think of after reading your post:

1. Yes, Quikrete is a bad sand, but I've never heard of it causing deaths that quickly. The dead crabs - was there evidence that they tried to molt? If I remember rightly, it caused a bunch of bad molts. Marie, can you confirm?

2. Your substrate needs to be deeper than the depth of one crab (including shell). It is for molting purposes, but it is also for crab comfort. If your crabs want time alone, they bury. But if all it takes is another crab just barely digging through the surface of the substrate to find him, he doesn't get very good alone time, now does he? At least a few inches over the height of the biggest crab (if your crab is huge, doubling it would be a bit ridiculous, so at least give him an extra two or three inches). The deeper the substrate, the less of a chance that your crabs accidentally disturb a molter and steal his exo/cannibalize him/steal his shell while he's soft.

3. That half log needs to be removed ASAP and replaced with something else as a hiding spot. The logs are made from a non-aromatic (smelly) type of cedar, which can kill crabs by irritating their abdomens until they drop their shells and die.

Those are just a few reasons, but it's all I have time for. Hopefully some of the other members will get on and fill in the rest!

[llmercll]

1. I have no clue as to their molting process. I never saw any of them anyway...they were just always down there.

2. I only have 1 crab now, and don't know if I'm going to get more...I'm not sure he's a social crab. He bullied the other one, and I never saw any the crabs together...ever. I'm going to add a little more to current crabitat, but not as much as last time.

3. That's interesting. Are you close to positive it's cedar? It couldn't be something else?

[CrabbyJo]

llmercll,
so sorry about your crabs.

I agree with Emma, completely, yes the deeper the substrate the happier your crabs will be and the safer they will feel. You don't have to have it all one depth, you can spread it out so they even have some inclines to walk around on if you want.

I also agree about the Quickrete, that play sand has been attributed to hermie molting abnormalities and deaths.
If you can't afford the Carib Sea Aragonite sand (sugar or select grain sizes) then best to go with Eco Earth (coconut fiber).

As far as social - the crabs may not cuddle together much, but they do appreciate having others around. I only see mine together sometimes. They will hide in the cocohut together sometimes, but that's about it, and I have 14.
"Bullying" is normal behavior, and it is necessary for them to boot each other around (they push with their big claw) and have antennae "fights" to establish dominance. It's best if we don't interfere unless there is big pincer action such as reaching with the big pincer open, or grabbing at the others shell.
Sometimes you'll get a crab who seems to be extra aggressive, and often this is a result of premolt symptoms which could go on for weeks until the crab goes down for his molt. They tend to come up with a completely better personality.

As for the hidey log, does it look like this: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... erralID=NA

Or this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... sa=image#p

Pay close attention to the bark. And look at this (Scroll down a few pictures for the pics of the bark): http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CBEQ9QEwAw

While the log may not be cedar per say, it is a conifer (pine) and is an irritant to the crabs.
Should be removed asap. Sorry

[llmercll]

I'm almost certain it's the "Mac's Critter Log"

good news or nay?

[ladybug15057]

I confirm about the play sand Emma. As for the time limit, it could vary.
When the complications were first noted with the play sand back in about 2002, it took about 6 months to a year. But the sand was washed and baked prior to using, and some play sands were a little more high quality than others. The lower the quality, the sooner the problems as well as whether one took the time to thoroughly washed the sand first prior to using. But depending too on where the sand was mined depended on the impurities found in the sand and not all could be washed or baked out.
And I agree with the other 2 crab crew, remove the half log ASAP!

[CrabbyJo]

Don't know what the Mac's critter log is, do you have a link? I'm going to take a jump though and say I have not seen any half logs that are NOT coniferous.
Take it out until you are positive.

[llmercll]

OK I took the log out. Any household items I can use to make a new one?

Also, I have some plastic plants in there, are those safe?

[emmac350]

Plastic plants are safe. If you have any coffee mugs or teacups, those can be used for hideys (prop them up on their sides, and pile some substrate in the opening to partially cover it) temporarily. You can make hideys out of legos, or terra cotta pots or crab-safe wood (there is a link on the left side of the screen for "EH" (Epicurean Hermit) that has a list of safe woods).

[CrabbyJo]

I have a plastic log in mine, one from the pet store. They aren't very cheap though. Mine was a gift from someone. I think it's about $15. It's a sort of realistic looking molded log.