Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

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sammsw
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Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by sammsw »

[img]Hi y'all.

I'm new to crabbing and have had 2 PPs for about a month and a half. I had done a lot of research prior but have had to make many adjustments as we've gone along. While I know their habitat continually grows better suited for them (and definitely is miles above the pet store I rescued them from), I worry constantly that I'm not doing them justice. At this point doing research on my own is difficult because of the sheer amount of fine tuning that could be done to make them happier and healthier, so I've decided to join the forum to hopefully find some help for my lil Scooter and Scuttlebutt.

My main tank is 20 gallons and I do have an isolation tank, but it's only half prepared. I haven't had to use it yet. As stated before, I have two PP's and they are in shells with diameters of about 3/4" and 1"? I don't know exactly how to size them. They've been in my care for approximately seven weeks and they are given a variety of foods: pieces of grape, pineapple, apples, mango, honey, crushed almonds, sanddollars, cuttle bone; cork wood, organic baby food with no preservatives, green beans, raisins, red shrimp, dark green lettuces, etc, and a few goldfish flakes every few weeks as a treat. But to be honest they only seem to have taken the tiniest nibbles of apples, pineapples, and mango, and really only seem to be eating the commercial food that the store was giving them, which I bought in concern about how little they seemed to be eating (it's Gardner's Hermit Crab Food). I've been trying to wean them off of it but they seem to be doing very little movement throughout the day and night, and worry that part of it is due to their lack of eating (or what I perceive to be their lack of eating).

I use tap water with a water conditioner from Tetra called AquaSafe. It doesn't claim to remove all heavy metals. Damn. I also took the salt out of the box and placed it in bags but believe it was Instant Ocean (my receipt says IO, so I feel like that's right?). The crabs have large water containers for both salt and fresh with plenty of rocks and shells at the bottom to allow them to easily climb in and out, as well as air stones to help keep the water fresh, but I very rarely see them over there. At first they had shallower containers more central in their tank and when I handled them there was always shell water coming out. Now there rarely is. When I'm finished handling them I usually put them near the water/in the water container on the rocks, but they head straight back to their hidey holes.

On one side of the tank is and UTH and it is positioned about an inch above the substrate, which varies in depth from 4" to 6" (there is a decline to the water dishes). I've used a small amount of Reptilite Natural Calcium Substrate mixed with an amount of play sand from Home Depot. It's probably about a 1:5 ratio.

I did calibrate the hygrometer and found it was reading ten under. The tank varies between 75% and 90% humidity but usually stays hovering around 80%, but I have to mist 1 to 2 times a day, even with a glass top and air stones. I looked for a better/more accurate hygrometer at a pet store and they all seemed to be rather junky. The hygrometer is on the opposite end of the water dishes and is about and inch from the top of the 6" portion of the substrate (which is the end the crabs are always on). I haven't seen how to calibrate the thermometer? And I have wondered if my crabs are cold due to their behavior and that they stay on the side of the tank with the heater (which is also the side that the thermometer is on). It has been always between 78 and 80 degrees, but recently with some cooling in temperatures is falling between 76 and 78. I have attached a insulting poster board to the end of my tank without the heat and around the back half.

I currently only have the one temperature and hygrometer. I have bought 4 at this point and two got ruined when cleaning the tank (my bad) and one just plain sucks.

Basically my concern is the lack of movement and the lack of eating that I see. I do find them from time to time in the upper level of the tank and food and water do appear to be consumed (and poop produced, although that has slowed and then picked up again recently). So I would appreciate all your expert tips and advice on the best products to use to ensure the safety of my bbs! I'd like them to live nice long lives. =]

Thanks in advance!

(I have pictures but am currently also needing help with how to upload them.)
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aussieJJDude
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by aussieJJDude »

First off hi! Hope you like it at HCP.
Here is the sizing chart which my may find useful:
HCP - Where to measure size that's what most crabbers use; just print out the sheet (laminate it or stick it in a plastic folder) and size your crabs! :)

There's some things that I would to mention that may cause lack of activity or just some warnings to watch out for.

Food:
- Do you feed them any meat's? If so, what and when/how much?
Hermit crabs really need a source(s) of protein; and I worried that the lack of energy might be due to the lack of protein. They need this to help them through their moults - a source of energy - and can be useful for other body functions. Most hermit crabs go wild at meat - especially sea food - so they might enjoy some fish, prawns and beef (all unseasoned) in their diet.
- I never heard of that commercial food and did a quick search on the internet and couldn't find it. Just heads up; most crabbers opt not to give their crabs the option of store brought food as it often contains a lot of dyes and preservatives. There's no evidence that the 'nasties' in these foods are bad or not; but many crabbers choose to not feed them just in case. It's common for us crabbers to feed them organic produce just in case; as we have no idea if the insecticides and other chemicals can harm the crabs! Anyway; if they fed a balanced diet hermit crabs shouldn't need any commercial foods to make up for the 'lost' nutrients. :)

Water:
- I've had no prior experience with Aquasafe; but I heard many of my fish keeper friends using it with some success. However a website I went on stated, "neutralises toxic substances in tap water, including chlorine and heavy metals such as copper, lead and zinc" (link) so it might be ok. Have you read all of the fine print?
- IO does sound alright; however it depends on store to store. Maybe go back and ask the store if "IO" is instant ocean just to make sure and cross this off the list? It's important that hermit crabs have marine grade salt water in their tanks. And coming from experience; went you have "hermit crab salts" or similar items they no where near as active with instant ocean (or similar items).
- How often do you clean the water? Most crabs seem to enjoy bathing and drinking from a "fresher" water source and maybe they just want "cleaner" water?
- How deep is your bowls? As hard as this sounds; hermit crabs can get very crabby if they don't have deep enough water to bathe/drink in. As long as the opening of their shells are covered - and there's and easy way in/out - they will love you for it!

Substrate:
- Great to see you have a nice deep substrate for them to bury in! XD
- Just some heads up on the reptile sand; many have reported that their hermit crabs have got "stuck" in their shells due to the sand cementing them inside or even a punctured abdomen. This is due to the calcium sand tendency to clump when moist. However at such a low ratio it should be fine; but something to keep an eye on just in case. ;)

Humidity/heat:
- Glad to see that the humidity is on point. It's best to strive for 70 - 80% humidity; however hermit crabs do enjoy higher humidity. The only problem is that with higher humidity often comes the presence of mould - which may be due to the lack of air flow... - but this is often remedied by soaking 'stuff' in salt water. Don't worry if some places have higher or lower humidity - as long is it isn't under 70% in my option - as it can be great for crabs to 'pick and choose' there own humidity levels. I'm sure that the humidity is higher near the water dishes.
- For the thermometer; do you have one in your house - or a friend - that you can compare yours too? (leaving them side by side for an hour and note the difference, if any?) Or depending on the range; sticking it in the fridge (most fridges have an option to choose your own temperature; so stick it near the temperature gauge in the fridge and note the difference). But yes; often crabs get sluggish if their crabitat is too cold. Once again; it's important to keep it 70 - 80F (most prefer 75F+) but 80F is ideal in the warm end.

It also might be that the hermies are getting ready to moult. Have they done it before?

Hope i have helped you in some ways. :)
246L/65G - 'Tidal Jungle' (Crabs) | 246L/65g - 'Backwater Pool' (Fish/Snails) | 96L/25G - ''Twisted Minds" (Fish/Snails/Shrimp) | 300L/90G Fancy Pond (Goldfish)

I've never had any problems with 'Impulse Buying'. They're just animals that I forgot I had planned to get.
sammsw
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Posts: 15
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 13:40
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Hermit crabs: 2
Total gallons: 50
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by sammsw »

I have not feed them meats. I don't buy a lot of meat myself, and I hate all kinds of fish, so it didn't occur to me! I know I've read to cook it in olive oil, but do you have any suggestions on how best to buy/store in small quantities since they eat so little? I don't want it to go to waste and I don't particularly want to be eating more of it myself. The processed food that I have been feeding them says it contains: mixed organic grains, coconut meal, seaweed, mangrove sap, trace elements. They seem to really like it and since I didn't see any preservatives listed thought it would be okay. Would you still suggest I steer away from it? And further, I found someone saying something about essentially a seafood kibble/food. Any ideas on what that's called or where I can find it? I have red shrimp that are without seasoning and unpreserved that I put in from time to time, but they never seem to touch it. Should I cook it in oil first? The bottle (which claims they are for turtles) says to take any uneaten out after half an hour. I have been taking them out after 1 day/night. Should/could I leave them longer?

Thank you for the size chart! I believe they both fall into the medium size. The larger one is maybe slightly too large for that. My printer is currently out of ink but I will print at work on Monday if I remember.

What I can find about the water conditioner says it does not remove fluoride and "helps" to remove iron and copper. I know that the salt I purchased I specified I wanted marine salt and I was at a store that caters to people with salt water tanks, so I feel that that's safe to cross off the list. I clean and change the water about once a week since they both have airstones. I'll begin to change the water more often and see if that helps. The dishes are about 4" deep and are filled about half way with rocks/shells so that the bbs don't drown. They can climb easily in and out and are mostly submerged when they are in the deeper end of the container.

I have about an inch strip of open space for air exchange on the lid of the tank. It is opposite of anything on the second level so that I don't have any escapees. I was reading last night about moss pits and hiawatha moss and I'm gonna get that going as soon as possible to keep the humidity a little more consistent. I will also purchase a second thermometer to see about calibrating it. Or... it is just velcro'd to the tank wall, so I could try calibrating it with the fridge as you suggested.

They have only been in my care about 7 weeks and they have not burrowed or done anything that would appear to me as moulting. I've never been through the process before, but I would think it's not easy to miss? The more sluggish of the two (who was constantly hanging out in the log and I haven't seen him out and about in a few weeks now) has moved up to the second level and has stayed there for now 2 days. While I was at work today he buried himself slightly under the climbing mat that I used as a surface for the bottom of the basket. He also has changed twice in 7 weeks into bigger shells and attempted a third time. He doesn't quite fit in the shell he's in now but I think the other turbos in the tank he decided were too heavy to maneuver... he kept toppling over in them. I have been looking for signs of moulting in his appearance but haven't noticed any (but am not skilled at spotting them either).
The other lil one has been doing a lot more adventuring and is out and about from time to time.

So my action plan:
Calibrate thermometer to check temp
Change waters more often
Include protein in diet
Create moss pit
Change water conditioner? Do you have any suggestions of other, more definitely reliable kinds?

Thank you so much for all your great advice!
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aussieJJDude
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by aussieJJDude »

do you have any suggestions on how best to buy/store in small quantities since they eat so little?
Buying them in small quantities - like off a fish monger or from a supermarket - and freezing them would do the trick. Even if you want to cook it and then freeze it; just break of a piece and let it thaw in the tank?
The processed food that I have been feeding them says it contains: mixed organic grains, coconut meal, seaweed, mangrove sap, trace elements
That sounds rather good! Personally I'm a tad worried on what those "trace elements" might contain... However thats just worry wart me! Most trace elements are beneficial for the crabs; so it should be ok.
Any ideas on what that's called or where I can find it?
Hmm; since I live on the other side of the world it's a little hard to direct you to places. :) But I've heard of people using http://www.hermitcrabpatch.com/ for some of their food mixes. A good way to go is find a mix you like and note if anything could be harmful to the crabs. Unfortunately this is an area which it's best to ask a US crabber so they can provide you with some more info! (Great place to go for now is Food section where it may offer some light)
Should I cook it in oil first?.... Should/could I leave them longer?
What's the deep fascination with oil?! XD haha If you want to cook it with oil; go ahead. Try different ways to offer the same foods; often when experimenting you will find their "sweet spot". For me; feeding unseasoned and uncooked prawn heads really got my crabs going others it's a light drizzle in honey. :) (Crabs, am I right?)
You may also want to increase the in tank time if you don't mind the slight shrimpy smell in there. My crabs really enjoyed eating "pre-moulding" fruits and veggies and some meats... I guess it just appeals to their scavenging habits in nature. :)
What I can find about the water conditioner says it does not remove fluoride and "helps" to remove iron and copper.
The weird thing is that small traces of fluoride in found in nature - especially in marine areas - and it's pretty common for marine keepers to add fluoride to their tanks! :) True I don't recommend on adding additional fluoride to your pools; but in trace amounts it might be used to keep the 'internal gears' going in the crabs. If you do feel worried about the presence of fluoride; it might be worth suggesting distilled water... Which is basically 100% pure H2O with no trace elements.
As for any I suggest; I really enjoy - and most fish keeper buddies I have - API tap water conditioner. Might be something you want to look into; but IMO it's pretty much the same as the one you're using currently
I clean and change the water about once a week since they both have airstones. I'll begin to change the water more often and see if that helps.
I'll be interested to see how your water changing schedule could affect crabs 'chances' of bathing in it. Most crabs I know enjoy bathing in water when it is freshly changed - much to the dismay of the owners - and maybe your crabbies might as well? However I'm sure that they getting their water; remember that they are nocturnal so under the cover of darkness they might be having mini pool parties in there! XD
(BTW I loving the deep pools for them; I'm sure they loving it too!)
I was reading last night about moss pits...
I totally recommend one! Not only does it make an awesome snack for the crabbies; but most crabs just love chill in their moss. (Not to mention the added humidity boost like you said... Win Win)
They have only been in my care about 7 weeks and they have not burrowed or done anything that would appear to me as moulting. I've never been through the process before, but I would think it's not easy to miss?
They probably don't need to (yet). Do they have black 'nails' and/or rather hairy? If so; it's a good indicator that they have recently moulted. And no; the moulting process isn't that hard to spot. After all it's common not the see crabs for 2 weeks or multiple months (depending on the size!)
246L/65G - 'Tidal Jungle' (Crabs) | 246L/65g - 'Backwater Pool' (Fish/Snails) | 96L/25G - ''Twisted Minds" (Fish/Snails/Shrimp) | 300L/90G Fancy Pond (Goldfish)

I've never had any problems with 'Impulse Buying'. They're just animals that I forgot I had planned to get.
sammsw
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Posts: 15
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 13:40
Gender: Female
Hermit crabs: 2
Total gallons: 50
Total tanks: 2

Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by sammsw »

They are both still pretty hairy, yes. The larger one has been buried in the basket for 2 days and hasn't left it for 4 days now. Last night when we got home the smaller one was up in the basket with him, which made me nervous, so I prepped the iso tank and moved the whole basket there so that I didn't disturb him. There is no smell coming from him, so hopefully he's either resting or moulting and not slowly dying?

The iso tank is 10 gal with 5"-6" of substrate throughout. The humidity is falling about 80% and the temperature about 75F. There are both salt and fresh water pools and some food-- crushed sanddollar added for some extra calcium. I covered the tank with a cloth to help make it a bit more dark since he isn't fully submerged. There's a terracotta pot for him to hide in and also a bit of cork to nibble if he comes out at any point. I just took the whole basket from the main tank and placed it in there. Is there anything else I should do to aid the lil dude?

The littler one has seemed quite happy and busy lately and has even begun sleeping/resting/hiding in climbing sort of positions (right now he's anchored himself to the back of the climbing wall and is just having a blast back there), so I'm feeling like he's feeling okay. It could have been them still adjusting to their new home and just beginning to fully recover from PPS... They've only been in this larger tank for about a month.

Changing water and adding the moss pit and hopefully some seaweed today. I'll try to get the dude some fish/meats today as well. I'll let you know how it goes. I really appreciate all your advice!!!
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aussieJJDude
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by aussieJJDude »

When you don't smell anything; it's a good sign that he is ok! :) Hopefully things go well. For the ISO; i'd suggest adding a few spare shells of his size - and slightly larger - just in case he feels like an upgrade.
246L/65G - 'Tidal Jungle' (Crabs) | 246L/65g - 'Backwater Pool' (Fish/Snails) | 96L/25G - ''Twisted Minds" (Fish/Snails/Shrimp) | 300L/90G Fancy Pond (Goldfish)

I've never had any problems with 'Impulse Buying'. They're just animals that I forgot I had planned to get.
sammsw
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Posts: 15
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 13:40
Gender: Female
Hermit crabs: 2
Total gallons: 50
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by sammsw »

Okay, awesome. I have the ones he's tried on but didn't feel quite ready for; I'll boil those to make them seem new and put them in when they're cooled. Upon every check he's still in the same place, although he has turned from time to time. I was able to see his lil antennae wobbling a bit today, so that was somewhat encouraging. I haven't caught him out and about in the iso but his fresh water supply is disappearing like crazy... while the salt is not. It's a biiiiig pool (not 4" as described before, but perhaps 1" deep x 4" long x 2" wide?) too and is half or fully empty about once a day so far. He's really made himself buried now... sand thrown over him and is no longer visible in the basket. I think he's goin in for it. Do these sound like moulting behaviors to you? You said I can expect him to be under for 2 weeks or more?

The one in the main tank ate a good amount of mango baby food today and has been making the rounds. It's seeming like for him I maybe just jumped the gun worrying a bit too much. =]
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aussieJJDude
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by aussieJJDude »

Yes and no. it could be a possible moult or it could just him destressing... Have to wait and see when he comes back up.
If a a moult; the process that can take as short as a week in smaller crabs and months for the larger crabs. However if destressing it can take around 2 week to a month.
The indicator on whether he has/will be moulting is a new hairy crab, changed in colour and/or black nails.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Glad to see that the little one is doing well; sounds like he is happy! :)
246L/65G - 'Tidal Jungle' (Crabs) | 246L/65g - 'Backwater Pool' (Fish/Snails) | 96L/25G - ''Twisted Minds" (Fish/Snails/Shrimp) | 300L/90G Fancy Pond (Goldfish)

I've never had any problems with 'Impulse Buying'. They're just animals that I forgot I had planned to get.
Ginger
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by Ginger »

Hi Sammsw, sorry I didn't get to this earlier, I think Aussie has pretty much covered all bases though. I will chuck in some points that I'm thinking of. For food, almost always at Petstores, if you go to the freezer you will find fish food in a tray of small frozen cubes. The type varies, but examples are blood worms, brine shrimp or krill. They are super nutritious and easy to pop one out per night. If you're not liking the idea of wet meat, I also use dried meat stuff such as black worms or mealworms which will again be in the fish/reptile section of your petstore. I seem to remember reading that cooking in oil is just a cooking suggestion to avoid using seasoners.

Aussies moulting signs as hairy legs and pointed legs are good, I like to add an additional sign as super shiny, marble-like eyes. It is hard to tell whether they will moult or not, whatever happens happens. I had a small crabs that was down for a month and a half once, so I wouldn't worry. Your setup, both ISO and main seem great to me so I would sit back and relax :)

My preference for dechlorinator a is "Prime", second preference would be API tap water conditioner. I use both, but for unexplained reasons like Prime better. If you can't find a good hygrometer/thermometer in your area, I would go to eBay. I am usually a big no-online shopper, but for this I found a good quality, accurate, digital combined unit that was in my City for $4.90!
sammsw
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Posts: 15
Joined: 09 Oct 2015, 13:40
Gender: Female
Hermit crabs: 2
Total gallons: 50
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Re: Obsessed with my two darling and snobby PPs

Post by sammsw »

Well, he's still buried down in the basket. Been drinking lots of water. Still no smell though!!! It's been about 5 days since he's been buried, but I have seen his antennae in the last 3 days. Do they do a lot of coming and going while molting or do they just go down and stay down?
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