White crab?

[CrabbyMamma]

So I got suckered in today. I went back to my local pet store looking for new shells for my hermies, and walked out with two new crabs

The crabs there are kept in a crappy plastic critter keeper, and when I looked in, one little guy was having a bath, and he was the only crab I could see. I felt sorry for him in there, so decided to bring him home. When the employee went to get him out, I asked if it was the only crab left. He said yes. And then proceeded to find about another 6 or 7 crabs buried under the very thin layer of shredded cardboard 'substrate'.

One of the crabs was white. Not a nice pretty unusual white, more a death is knocking on his door, Grandpa kind of white. I held him in my hand for a minute and he gingerly stuck his head out, so being the sucker I am, I bought him too.

My tanks is still not ideal (only in that I am still struggling with temp and humidity a bit), so I hadn't planned on getting any new crabs until I had that sorted, but ultimately I decided that they were still better off in there than in their cold, dry critter keeper in the air conditioned shop.

So the first crab (the one that was in the water) is very bold, he doesn't hide in his shell when I put my hand near him, or with my toddler jumping around watching him. He's had a bath, gobbled food, and spent all evening exploring and climbing in the tank. The white crab has been slowly moving around checking things out, but so far I haven't seen him eat or swim or drink.

Anyhoo, all that rambling aside, my question is about the appearance of the white crab. Is this a sign of anything? A sign he is sick? A sign he needs to moult? Old age? He looks (but not acts) sick to me, and to be honest I bought him not expecting him to live very long, I just thought he would be more comfortable here than in the shop.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated

[Wai]

He is likely to be very deficient in carotenoids, which darken their exoskeleton colour.

[Suebee]

When a crab needs to molt they usually take on a whiter ashy look, normaly you can see it around the eyes best. One of the best places ive found for molting photos and information is here at the HCP http://www.hermitcrabpatch.com/Hermit-C ... -a/138.htm
Diet also does have a impact on the coloring of crabs. You will find crabs in the wild that are the same species but different areas have different coloring due to the diet that is available to them.
The best way to determine age in crabs is size but not all small crabs are young. Crabs also seem to get more color with age not less in my experiences but that is also due to the diet I give my crabs.
Best thing is to offer many different items, you will find that one day a favorate may go uneaten due to the crab just not needing those nutrients at that time. They seem to eat what they need. I would think that due to the substrate being one they couldnt molt in and one crab in the water dish that you are going to have molters very soon. I would make sure they have access to fresh and salt water, fresh coco nut, worm castings, and crushed oyster shell. That is the basics, veggies, shrimp exos, fruit and other foods should be offered as much as you can as well. Small amounts daily.
Make sure you have a good substrate ( I sugest 5 parts play sand to one part coco nut fiber) and make sure its deep enough for your largest crab to dig down and cover himself with a nice amount of substrate above him. Take care, Suebee

[emmac350]

Suebee, I know that some sites still promote using playsand for substrates, but I encourage you to check out this site that shows some of the dangers of playsand.
http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... Substrates

I used to use playsand, but after switching to an aragonite sand (pictures on that site show you the difference between the different types of sands) it was incredibly different - digging your hand into aragonite sand doesn't feel like you're being scratched and scraped. The grains are smooth and round, and there is no chance of the grains puncturing a soft abdomen if they get into a crab's shell.

[Suebee]

One of the things I would never sugest after my visit to ELHC and seeing the Research that HCP and ELHC has done is aragonite sand. It is way to fine. Sand pieces are sharp on gills. The tiny pieces get into the modified gills of the crab and over time can really damage the crabs..
Yes it may look nice and feel nice to us but I would not put it in a tank with my crabs.. It can do long time damage. You may find molts more often trying to regenerate new gills. This sometimes makes people think that the crabs like the sand more. My sugestion is the same as the major importers that have healthy crabs and Many years of research. 5 parts play sand to one parts EE.

[emmac350]

Did you look at the microscopic photographs on the link I posted? The point of buying an oolitic aragonite sand is that it's a round grain. The CaribSea brand is the best quality sand you can get. You can also buy different grain sizes so you can get anywhere from fractions of a millimiter to multiple millimeters. Play sand, however, is made by crushing rocks and, therefore, has sharp grains and scrapings from the machines used to crush them from rocks.

Gills also are not regenerated during molts, nor are abdomens. So molting often to regenerate gills doesn't sound quite right, as nothing would be regenerated. Many years of research (to include Carol of CrabWorks who has had her two crabs for 33 years now and those at the CSJ who were some of the first to realize that ethoxyquin in commercial crab food killed crabs) have gone into the realization that playsand isn't a good long-term sand choice.

[Suebee]

I disagree. Even round sand granuals can cause much damage inhailed into the gills. Much more then the exo is regenerated during a molt. Ive had much luck with play sand, Some of my crabs have been with me for over 10 years. I think you will find with more years of using aragonite sand will show this. Think of the sand on beaches and look at it under a microscope. Ive seen many want aragonite sand to be the best because of the nice whitness however Ive seen people have unexplained problems after giving it a try for years. I would always sugest what is closest to the natural inviorment of the crabs on the beaches. I think time will tell.
Using total EE is not safe in my opinion. I gave putting more EE then the 5:1 ration in my tank and lost crabs for the first time in years. They crabs biodegraded during molting. My loss rate has been very low and I believe this to be my listening to the research of HCP and ELHC. I do not go to other boards for "new" ideas, however I do listen to years of research to find anything I can do to make my crabs safe.

[ladybug15057]

CrabbyMamma to address you question, he maybe lacking certain nutrients in his diet. But I also know of an Aussie crabber who use to have some variable colored hermies, some being of a whitish/beige in coloring too.
http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Variabilis

http://coenobitaspecies.com/variabilis.htm

http://www.crabstreetjournalphotos.com/ ... p?album=12
I am sure with him living with you he will begin to have a diet with all the nutrients that he will need to become and remain healthy!
He has every chance to make it with you, and if he unfortunately does pass he will do so with dignity! But when we do buy newbies we do need to remember sometimes that even with our best that sometimes the damage done is irreversible.

[ladybug15057]

To address the other parts of this thread in case Wai decides to split it since it is off track as to what the original posting was:

Being a successful user of aragonite sand for several years I must say that some can be sharp, but the oolitic sand is round and smooth. The sugar and select grain size grains are not any larger than the play sand grains or smaller. I have not had any gills clogged or damage to the hermies due to using it. (as well as many others have not) Several years ago there were major compilations with MANY hermies when crabbers used play sand as a substrate. Play sand sold on the market here in the U.S. is NOT the closest to the hermies environment. The play sand sold is mined MUCH deeper than hermies are known to even think about burrowing in the wild.
Now this is not to say there is not an occasional crabber who may not have problems, but a LOT has to do where the sand was mined at. Please do research more in depth about play sand. Majority of it contains quicklime or calcium oxide as well as many other impurities within it. This is something I have researched in depth since about 2001. (as well as a few other substrates) Please also remember, as well as research and experience in actually keeping hermies alive, some information has also come directly from Crustacean scientists and biologists. Those who have actually gone out in the field where hermies live as well as done research/experience in labs.
This is real professionals who have gone to college and such for degrees. Please do keep an open mind. It is healthy to accept there is more than one way to keep hermies alive and thriving in captivity. It is good you have found what has worked for you. Please accept there are other methods that certainly work for others… the ultra fine gravel queen for example CrabWorks. And surprising as it is, CrabWorks was advised to use an all Eco Earth substrate for Jon & Kate’s molting nest the last couple years and they have molted successfully. This was advised to her by Tammy? But CrabWorks uses river rock the last couple years in Jon and Kates regular tank and lets them roam her home most of the day still too. Now IMO, THAT is YEARS of experience when one keeps 2 hermies alive for going on 33 YEARS! How does one argue when somebody has been successful that the way they keep their hermies is wrong?

[CrabbyMamma]

Thanks everyone. Marie, I checked out those photos, and there are some really white crabs there - unfortunately they still look quite healthy, this little guy not so much, his white is more like dried grey sticks - not bits of orange on him. I might try to take a photo of him later if I get a chance to do so without disturbing him.

Like I said, I bought him not really expecting him to live, it will be lovely if he does though. I purposely have only shown the other new crab to my 5 year old without pointing this one out so he will not be sad if the crab doesn't make it. If he does, I might call him Grandpa

As for substrate, I am too new to have an opinion either way. Though I just swapped from play sand to Carrib Sea sand, so hopefully both theories are right Still planning on adding a mix of EE in if I ever have all crabs up and about at the same time again.