HBH veggie flakes

[cometstream]

I said this earlier and I don't know if I submitted it but here is my question:
Is HBH veggie flakes ok for your crabs? Here is a list of the ingredients

INGREDIENTS:Spirulina Powder, Soy Flour, Pea Powder, Dehydrated Alfalfa Leaf Powder, Wheat Flour, Wheat Starch, Carrot Powder, Spinach Powder, Fish Meal, Fish Oil, Wheat Germ, Brewers Dried Yeast, Kelp Powder, Zucchini Powder, Kale Powder, Beet Powder, Soybean Oil, Soy Lecithin, Wheat Gluten, Astaxanthin, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin A Acetate, Choline Chloride, a-Tocopheryl Acetate (source of Vitamin E), Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Pyridoxine HCl, Folic Acid, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Citric Acid

[CrabbyJo]

It generally looks safe, but the bad news is that any kind of "meal" such as the fish meal contains Ethoxyquin. It's best to steer away from anything that has "meal"s in it.
Ethoxyquin prevents the oils in the product from spoiling, making the product last much much much longer. Unfortunately, it is toxic to your hermit crabs over a long period. It's like feeding them a slow poison.
Sorry!

[cometstream]

I didn't know about the " meal" things I do know not to use ethoyquin or copper sulfrate I do not use hermit crab food products. It was a free sample that came with 5 of my 7 hermies because I adopted them and I wanted to make sure they could eat it. Good thing I didn't give it to them yet thanks

[ladybug15057]

Chances are the 'meal' could be ethoxyquin, but it is not always 100% true all the time. 'Meal' can also be other byproducts, or bones as well. Best to just steer away when one does not know for sure. Many other HBH food products in reality DO contain ethoxyquin.
Seems some manufacturers have changed their labels and removed the ingredient 'ethoxyquin' due to being contacted by concerned pet owners. Unlike dog and cat foods manufacturers are not required to list it either in the ingredients when it is under a certain percentage too.

[cometstream]

I think you are right because the hermit crab patch has food that I know contains copper sulfrate. (or however you spell it). So I don't know why they are selling it...

[ladybug15057]

IMO, no reason to take the chance. There are plenty of freeze dried and dehydrated foods sold with no additives that are nutritious that the hermies can be offered along with their fresh foods for a very high nutritious diet.

[CrabbyJo]

I was shocked when I did a search on ethoxyquin to find a letter written by a veterinarian who was very concerned about the rising instances of nervous system disorders in dogs and cats, and this rise began when Ethoxyquin became a common preservative added to dog foods.
Ethoxyquin is NOT allowed to be used in anything for human consumption, except for paprika, as it takes such small amounts that they deemed it "safe", and they don't expect people to be eating paprika in large amounts. Now, if you decided paprika was a great food supplement for some reason and began eating a teaspoon a day, you would most likely be eating more than the allowed amount of Ethoxyquin, and could start causing yourself some damage.

Ethoxyquin is one of those things that is connected to a lot of controversy, mainly because it saves the pet food companies TONS of money because it keeps oils from spoiling in meats and it all lasts longer so they can produce more and are throwing away less, so they do NOT want to hear they can't keep using it. But there is a huge increase in nervous system disorders in dogs and cats, but no scientific studies yet to prove it, so they will continue using it. Scientific studies take years, and funding, and persons willing to dedicate their time to that specific study. It isn't easy, so we may not see one or the results of one for quite a few years.

Got me going on my soap box.

Lunch is over now, you all have a great day, and feed those crabbies some good food!

[ladybug15057]

Researching hermies diets began in the early 2000's, and it was Abhay who first came to Hermies Group with the ethoxyquin information.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/herm ... sage/48118

From that point to my knowledge researching ingredients put into foods REALLY became top priority. As CrabbyJo said, lots of nightmare stories out there, and ethoxyquin and copper sulphate was just the beginning!

[cometstream]

My friend bought hbh variety bites and calci sand, a critter carrier, and one hermit crab. He says the calci sand is good because it doesn't say it is calci sand( but it is and it is zoo med brand). I am going to buy him a 10 gallon tank and give him a block of eco earth. I showed him the sites for crab food this morning and he was thinking about getting some. He also gives them some fresh food.(not enough variety, though I still think he will use some of the hbh variety bites,and I do know it is bad) I told him about calci sand getting wet and getting stuck to them ect. The problem is he is convenced his critter carrier is big enough. he said he was only gonna keep one at a time but I told him to get more because they are social. What is weird is he researched with me and knows they need a ten gallon tank, sea salt, declorinated water fresh food and he needs to have variety with food. He has freshwater salt and he bought a year supply of that gonna be hard to convince him to get sea salt. (without that will the crabs ?) trying to help best I can, he does a betta in a half gallon tank. earleir a wrote something about bettas and so it is like "seriously, you don't know how to take care of them " He says though that he doesn't wanna have two because he doesn't want the to eat each other when they molt. Any suggestions because he is thinks he is taking care of them but he isn't and he thinks that some things are just crazy. ANY HELP IS WELCOME
also is this good it is the petco brand of hbh cookies but with vanilla, strawberry flavoring, and carob (witch is kinda like chocolate) here is the ingredients: Wheat flour, fructose, carrot powder, glycerine, carob powder, soybean oil, gluco-delta-lactone, vanilla flavoring, strawberry flavoring, rosemary extract, natural mixed tocopherols (preservative), citric acid -----------------
Just wondering because if my friend wants to use commercial food, I will try to find one that is good.

[ladybug15057]

All one can do is to suggest to stay away from the commercial foods (other than dehydrated and freeze dried) and the canned foods. Other than that it is up to the individual and sadly it is the hermie who will unfortunately pay for it in the longer run.